I would say everything comes down to a heart matter with God. Has he told you tithe? I think righteousness is the pathway to blessings. I think righteousness is listening to and doing what God is asking us to. It says in proverbs that anyone that asks for wisdom will be given it. So I guess the ultimate answer is what is Wisdom telling you in regards to tithing. I have always believed in the law of reaping and sowing, I just called it a different name so I don't think tithing could ever hurt. I like this format, what's up with red and the wolf?
Ha! Thanks Biff...this was a question deemed to "controversial for email" so I went BLOG! I appreciate what you say here...reaping and sowing has another name....Karma.
Red and the Wolf? I just like that story as a main cautionary tale for the fairy tale genre. Moral: Hey kids, don't go into the forest alone--there is a wolf--better listen to your parents.
I think there really isn't an easy answer to this question Bear. I mean, if you ignore the new testament, then, yes, it will rob you of blessing. But for the NT, like Biff says, it's all about the heart. I guess I wonder what you think.
For me: I tend to be somewhat karma-ish in regards to my finances which I fully realize is not what God intends. I try to believe that God gives me money as a free gift and that He trusts me to know what to do with it. But I still find myself believing that if I don't give above and beyond that 10% that God will cut of the fountain of funds. What we have hear is a failure to live in His absolute grace. Ultimately I realize deep down that I'm not completely right (as in my soul is ill because all of my priorities are not, or at least I think they're not, God's priorities) and I have anxiety about that which gives me this aforementioned symptom of fear of God taking away my lifestyle. So... what about you? What's He trying to tell you?
@Kristine, I am not really sure how you become a follower:)
Mike, thanks for responding. You bring up some great points...my thoughts...? They are many, but I wonder how we--as in those who read the Bible--tend to come up with certain beliefs about things like--well-tithing. I would say that it is not that clear cut...at least that is what I get from what you and Biff are saying about the "need" to tithe or the removal of blessing. Clearly, we are not going to ignore the NT. So where does that leave us?
I guess another point of view is that it's practical: the pastor has to eat.
But as a commentary, I feel that this necessity for churches to be funded (which I suppose is a created need since churches don't need buildings or even full-time pastors) is usually masked in the pretense that we will be blessed if give, we'll miss out if we don't, etc.
Personally, I do believe the scriptures that we will be blessed for doing what we're told to do and Malachi says to tithe. Whether I believe that all the time is another discussion that does not need further discussion.
Also, I suppose that Jesus did say he'll take away our talents if we don't use them. Somehow this use of fear doesn't really jive with my experience of Jesus though, so I assume He's telling us that we have the option of squandering what we have or doing something awesome with it and impressing/pleasing our Master.
I think you should go buy a book. They usually help people out, right?
Thanks Mike. Here is my thought/response, and Okay...I will buy a book.
Can pastors work so they can eat? Malachi says this, but again, how does it flow with everything else?
I am not clear what our talents being taken away really means...as in--does not tithing=squandering? To be fair, I am referring to the 10% literal meaning here.
Anyway, I know this is complex, and clearly the community needs to support itself, I guess I really just don't understand this part as a rule. This is the thing....the heart of my questions...as a rule or law. Of course we should give, of course we should take care of widows and orphans, and help the poor and the down trodden. I get that as a center of the Kingdom. But will I lose my blessing if I don't give 10% of my paycheck--or if I am being biblical--the crops I grow (so in this case some tiny tomatos) if I don't put it into the basket Sunday morning. I am NOT saying that a pastor or a church does not need it or even deserve it, I just see this as another area of contentious fear believers have placed on themselves. Fear of God is good, but I wonder about it in this case.
If one is tithing in order to gain blessing, is that not still worshipping the blessing, i.e. things of this world and not God? I agree tithing is a heart matter that should say, "God, use this money for whatevs; I don't care how it affects me, good or bad, because I have You either way." Anyone who told you to tithe for blessing was selling you something. My question would be: what prompted you to ask this question? Do you feel a need to earn the Lord's blessing in your life? I know the immediate response is, no. But, where's the underlying obligation that seems to be at play here? I agree with Mike, guilt and fear are not God's motivators. But i experience a lot of people experiencing those emotions around this subject for some reason. That's why this is a very appropriate question to ask, Bear. At the moment I can think of two valid reasons for tithing: you "want" to (heart) or you feel called to (obedience). Neither of those have anything to do with what you get in return (though you can expect an "affect" in your life).
I would say everything comes down to a heart matter with God. Has he told you tithe? I think righteousness is the pathway to blessings. I think righteousness is listening to and doing what God is asking us to. It says in proverbs that anyone that asks for wisdom will be given it. So I guess the ultimate answer is what is Wisdom telling you in regards to tithing. I have always believed in the law of reaping and sowing, I just called it a different name so I don't think tithing could ever hurt. I like this format, what's up with red and the wolf?
ReplyDeleteHa! Thanks Biff...this was a question deemed to "controversial for email" so I went BLOG! I appreciate what you say here...reaping and sowing has another name....Karma.
ReplyDeleteRed and the Wolf? I just like that story as a main cautionary tale for the fairy tale genre. Moral: Hey kids, don't go into the forest alone--there is a wolf--better listen to your parents.
How do I become a "follower" of "thebearishungry"?
ReplyDelete~Kristine
jandkmagee@sbcglobal.net
I think there really isn't an easy answer to this question Bear. I mean, if you ignore the new testament, then, yes, it will rob you of blessing. But for the NT, like Biff says, it's all about the heart. I guess I wonder what you think.
ReplyDeleteFor me: I tend to be somewhat karma-ish in regards to my finances which I fully realize is not what God intends. I try to believe that God gives me money as a free gift and that He trusts me to know what to do with it. But I still find myself believing that if I don't give above and beyond that 10% that God will cut of the fountain of funds. What we have hear is a failure to live in His absolute grace. Ultimately I realize deep down that I'm not completely right (as in my soul is ill because all of my priorities are not, or at least I think they're not, God's priorities) and I have anxiety about that which gives me this aforementioned symptom of fear of God taking away my lifestyle.
So... what about you? What's He trying to tell you?
@Kristine, I am not really sure how you become a follower:)
ReplyDeleteMike, thanks for responding. You bring up some great points...my thoughts...? They are many, but I wonder how we--as in those who read the Bible--tend to come up with certain beliefs about things like--well-tithing. I would say that it is not that clear cut...at least that is what I get from what you and Biff are saying about the "need" to tithe or the removal of blessing. Clearly, we are not going to ignore the NT. So where does that leave us?
I guess another point of view is that it's practical: the pastor has to eat.
ReplyDeleteBut as a commentary, I feel that this necessity for churches to be funded (which I suppose is a created need since churches don't need buildings or even full-time pastors) is usually masked in the pretense that we will be blessed if give, we'll miss out if we don't, etc.
Personally, I do believe the scriptures that we will be blessed for doing what we're told to do and Malachi says to tithe. Whether I believe that all the time is another discussion that does not need further discussion.
Also, I suppose that Jesus did say he'll take away our talents if we don't use them. Somehow this use of fear doesn't really jive with my experience of Jesus though, so I assume He's telling us that we have the option of squandering what we have or doing something awesome with it and impressing/pleasing our Master.
I think you should go buy a book. They usually help people out, right?
Thanks Mike. Here is my thought/response, and Okay...I will buy a book.
ReplyDeleteCan pastors work so they can eat?
Malachi says this, but again, how does it flow with everything else?
I am not clear what our talents being taken away really means...as in--does not tithing=squandering? To be fair, I am referring to the 10% literal meaning here.
Anyway, I know this is complex, and clearly the community needs to support itself, I guess I really just don't understand this part as a rule. This is the thing....the heart of my questions...as a rule or law. Of course we should give, of course we should take care of widows and orphans, and help the poor and the down trodden. I get that as a center of the Kingdom. But will I lose my blessing if I don't give 10% of my paycheck--or if I am being biblical--the crops I grow (so in this case some tiny tomatos) if I don't put it into the basket Sunday morning. I am NOT saying that a pastor or a church does not need it or even deserve it, I just see this as another area of contentious fear believers have placed on themselves. Fear of God is good, but I wonder about it in this case.
If one is tithing in order to gain blessing, is that not still worshipping the blessing, i.e. things of this world and not God? I agree tithing is a heart matter that should say, "God, use this money for whatevs; I don't care how it affects me, good or bad, because I have You either way." Anyone who told you to tithe for blessing was selling you something. My question would be: what prompted you to ask this question? Do you feel a need to earn the Lord's blessing in your life? I know the immediate response is, no. But, where's the underlying obligation that seems to be at play here? I agree with Mike, guilt and fear are not God's motivators. But i experience a lot of people experiencing those emotions around this subject for some reason. That's why this is a very appropriate question to ask, Bear. At the moment I can think of two valid reasons for tithing: you "want" to (heart) or you feel called to (obedience). Neither of those have anything to do with what you get in return (though you can expect an "affect" in your life).
ReplyDelete